| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 | Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders.
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 669492
 Australia
5/7/2009 11:47 PM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
I was baptised at birth as a Catholic.
I also had my first communion and confirmation.
If the Mormons tried to null by baptism by rebaptising me into their faith, I would leave instructions for my next of kin to sue their asses.
My spiritual business is none of the Mormons business.
Funny, I never had a beef with Mormons, but after reading this I hate their guts.
Next time they knock on my door, I'll knock on thier face. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641467
How can the Mormons null your baptism? What happens? You're sitting there in heaven, some Mormons rebaptise you, then suddenly you get chucked into hell? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
 United States
5/7/2009 11:49 PM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
I answered this question about Laban in a thread a week or so ago. I will try to explain it again here, in a brief summary.
Laban was a terrible man and would have killed them. He had already gone back on his word and taken possession of their wealth and property. The Lord instructed them to kill him because Laban would have sent soldiers after them. The Lord's plan, the work he wanted done, would not have been possible.
I too had to study this passage about Laban. If, however, you will research the Old Testament, you will discover that the Lord commanded them to kill "every living thing" whenever they conquered a land/people. The Lord wanted them to kill every man, woman, child, dog, beast, etc. Every living thing.
So, the Lord's instructions to kill Laban was not that different from his instructions to kill "every living thing" in the Old Testament. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 671769
United States
5/7/2009 11:49 PM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
Here's the way I look at it:
If the baptism of the dead is bogus, it's not hurting anyone.
If the baptism of the dead is for real, and each dead guy has the option to pick and choose whether he wants the baptism to stick, it's not hurting anyone.
Certainly the LDS theology is substantially different from Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox (Greek / Russian / Ukranian / etc.) Christians, but so what? The idea of baptism for the dead, or being with your family for time and eternity sound okay to me, even though I'm not LDS. I mean, most Christians believe in the ritual cannibalism of their God (they call it "communion"); and no one in the Christian world seems to get antsy about that.
And Ahim-Sa, you'd better stay away from Mesa, or I'll have the Elders after you. You can hide from me, but not from the bicycle boys! Quoting: Duncan Kunz
Well-said Duncan |
| voice
User ID: 674141
United States
5/7/2009 11:53 PM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
As far as I'm concerned, even if you believe the Book of Mormon to be a work of fiction, it still contains some inspiring and uplifting stories of faith. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
Well sure, the Jews have always been great story tellers.......just look what they've done in Hollywood! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 669492
Australia
5/7/2009 11:55 PM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
What happened to Joseph Smith? Did he die a peaceful death from old age in his sleep? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
United States
5/7/2009 11:55 PM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
"How can the Mormons null your baptism? What happens? You're sitting there in heaven, some Mormons rebaptise you, then suddenly you get chucked into hell?"
As far as I know, your baptism does not get "nulled" when you are excommunicated.
As far as I know, you are considered a member of the church (after baptism) unless you specifically ask (in person or by letter) to have your name removed from the church rolls. This action on you part will remove you as a member; it is like you were never baptized.
This action is usually a private matter between the Bishop and the person wanting their names removed, so I am not really sure of the process. This is one of those matters that is between the Bishop and the person.
If someone is excommunicated, I think they can still attend church, they just can't hold callings and stuff. However, if someone is excommunicated, it is usually because they are doing something they should not be doing (adultery, for example) and they refuse to quit doing it.
As I said, I am not "exactly" sure how all this works since no one I know has ever been through this process. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 630447
United States
5/7/2009 11:58 PM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
I am an member of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Do you have a specific question? I will do what I can to answer it for you. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
Thank you. Please correct me if I am mistating. It is not done intentionally.
I would like to understand why Joseph Smith changed his views on baptism for the dead. I understand that he articulated this doctrine at a funeral sermon for one of his church members in 1840.
Wasn't it meant for Mormon relatives initally and why did that change to include everyone.
I frankly have difficulty with the proxy who speaks on behalf of the dead person and who physically undergoes the baptism.
This proxy was not authorized to act on anyone's behalf and so is not a proxy by definition.
I read the general response to be that the dead person who is in the spirit world can reject this baptism to Mormon missionaries who are also in the spirit world.
Is that correct and if so, how is it communicated to the Mormon church on earth so that the records may be expunged?
In an earlier post I quoted from Joseph Smith where he says that a curse will befall the earth if this practice is not done. What does he mean by that? Did he indicate that God told him that?
Aside from baptism for the dead I understand that the dead may also be confirmed and married.
In the case of Pope Pius XII, who of course was unmarried; he was baptized in death and sealed in married with a wife that was named "Mrs. Eugenio Pacelli" even though this is a lie because the pope was never married.
Why do this?
I mean no disrespect for your beliefs. You are free of course to believe what you wish, but I think you underestimate how these practices come across to non-Mormons who check your genealogy website to see the names of their dead loved one's baptized as Mormons.
It is an intrusion that is so repulsive and arrogant that I fail to see how you can do such a thing and not realize the hurt and potential hatred you are incurring. |
| voice
User ID: 674141
United States
5/7/2009 11:59 PM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
I answered this question about Laban in a thread a week or so ago. I will try to explain it again here, in a brief summary.
Laban was a terrible man and would have killed them. He had already gone back on his word and taken possession of their wealth and property. The Lord instructed them to kill him because Laban would have sent soldiers after them. The Lord's plan, the work he wanted done, would not have been possible.
I too had to study this passage about Laban. If, however, you will research the Old Testament, you will discover that the Lord commanded them to kill "every living thing" whenever they conquered a land/people. The Lord wanted them to kill every man, woman, child, dog, beast, etc. Every living thing.
So, the Lord's instructions to kill Laban was not that different from his instructions to kill "every living thing" in the Old Testament. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
Oh sorry AC 92956,,,,,,didn't realize it was you! Your right, we've had this conversation before: So why didn't God just put Laban to sleep? Why make a murderer out of Nephi???
And a more to the point: Who's is trying to convince you that God does these sorts of 'human life taking' stories??? |
| Ahim-sa 
existential akashic experientialist
User ID: 416873
United States
5/8/2009 12:00 AM
 | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
Not so sure about the U&T not being used? Remember the first 116 pages that were 'lost' by Martin Harris? That's when Joseph claims that the U&T were taken away and he had to continue forth with just the seer-stone. The LDS church still owns Smith's stone, which they keep locked up in SLC.
Google is a goldmine of Mormon minutiae so don't try to bullshit anyone, OK?
alt.religion.mormon:
I offer a brief summary of what we know of the Book of Mormon "translation" process. I welcome corrections if anyone is aware of any. There are a number of articles that have been written on the subject, all of which are in substantive agreement (Refs follow commentary).
After reviewing the accounts from Joseph Smith (1838, 1842), Emma Smith Bidamon (1870, 1879), David Whitmer (1875, 1879, 1881, 1885, 1886, 1887), Oliver Cowdery (1834, 1859), Martin Harris (1882), Elizabeth Ann Whitmer Cowdery Johnson (1870), Michael Morse (1879), Isaac Hale (1834), Alva Hale (1834), William Smith (1883, 1884, 1891), and neighbors of Joseph Smith collected in 1833 by Dr. Philatus Hurlburt, -- James E. Lancaster provides this summary:
"An examination of the foregoing eyewitness testimonies produces the following consensus on the method of translation of the Book of Mormon:
(1) Nephite interpreters often called "Urim and Thummim" were found with the plates on Hill Cumorah; [my note: The words "Urim and Thummim" were never used to describe the stones until after the Book of Mormon was published. Even then the term was first used by people other than Joseph Smith.]
(2) these interpreters were used first in the translation of the plates;
(3) the portion translated by use of the interpreters was copied into 116 pages of foolscap and was later lost by Martin Harris;
(4) because of the loss of the first 116 pages of translation, the interpreters were permanently taken away [June/July 1828];
(5) the Book of Mormon that we have today was translated by use of the seer stone;
(6) Smith translated by placing the seer stone in a hat and covering his face with his hat to darken his eyes;
(7) the plates were not used in the translating process and often were not even in sight during the translation;
(8) other persons were sometimes in the room while Smith dictated to a scribe; and
(9) [almost] all witnesses agree to these facts.
The earliest newspaper accounts do not differ significantly from this scenario." ("The Translation of the Book of Mormon", pp. 105-6)
It is interesting to note that in a 25 June 1992 seminar for new mission presidents, Elder Russell M. Nelson said, "The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights." (Ensign, July 1993, p. 62.) Then he quoted from David Whitmer's 1887 account in which Joseph Smith "would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat...."
Several witnesses claimed that Smith saw English words or letters appear before his eyes. However, other statements by some of the same men, other witnesses, and revelations (D&C 8,9) infer the translation process was not automatic and mechanical. Supporting this are the thousands of corrections and textual revisions made to the original manuscript by Joseph Smith. The third or 1840 edition of the Book of Mormon was printed with this statement, "Carefully Revised by the Translator." B.H. Roberts concluded,
"The translation of the Book of Mormon by means of the "Interpreters" and "Seer Stone," was not merely a mechanical process, but required the utmost concentration of mental and spiritual force possessed by the prophet..." (Young Men's Manual, 1903-4, p. 69)
"This view of the translation of the Nephite record accounts for the fact that the Book of Mormon, though a translation of an ancient record, is nevertheless, given in English idiom of the period and locality in which the prophet lived; and in the faulty English, moreover as to composition, phraseology, and grammar, of a person of Joseph Smith's limited education; and also accounts for the sameness of phraseology and literary style which runs through the whole volume." (Young Men's Manual, 1903-4, p. 71)
shift happens |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
United States
5/8/2009 12:00 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
"What happened to Joseph Smith? Did he die a peaceful death from old age in his sleep?"
Joseph Smith was murdered in jail. His jailers let armed men into the jail who killed Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum. They figured if they killed the leader then the "Mormons" would just go away. This didn't happen. They also thought the "Mormons" would retaliate. This also didn't happen.
Joseph Smith knew when they took him from his home on bogus charges that he was going to his death.
Even after he was shot and fell from a second story window they laughed at him and shot him some more. Heartless. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
United States
5/8/2009 12:03 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
"Not so sure about the U&T not being used? Remember the first 116 pages that were 'lost' by Martin Harris? That's when Joseph claims that the U&T were taken away and he had to continue forth with just the seer-stone. The LDS church still owns Smith's stone, which they keep locked up in SLC.
Google is a goldmine of Mormon minutiae so don't try to bullshit anyone, OK?"
If I am not mistaken I did say I wasn't sure about my church history. It has been "years" since I studied it in depth, and my memory isn't what it was when I was younger.
I do recall that Martin Harris lost the first pages. I don't remember the U&T being taken away, however. I also have not heard anything about the church owning the stones. It was always my understanding that they were taken with the plates. Again, I'm just not able to remember my church history, and it would take too long to go look it up.
Trying to bullshit anyone? Never! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
United States
5/8/2009 12:07 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
"Supporting this are the thousands of corrections and textual revisions made to the original manuscript by Joseph Smith."
Most of the corrections made were spelling and punctuation. Also, the Book of Mormon was put into chapter and verse order like the Bible to make it easier to read and find stuff. I have seen one of the earlier copies of the Book of Mormon, and it must have been impossible to try to find/reference anything. Also, footnotes were added to reference similar scriptures. |
| Ahim-sa
existential akashic experientialist
User ID: 416873
United States
5/8/2009 12:08 AM
| | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
So why didn't God just put Laban to sleep? Why make a murderer out of Nephi??? Quoting: voice 674141
How did Nephi then take Laban's bloody clothing and armour off from the drunken man who he had just beheaded, put it on himself and then manage to fool Laban's servant with the whole bloody disguise?
Give me an effin break!
shift happens |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
United States
5/8/2009 12:13 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
"Oh sorry AC 92956,,,,,,didn't realize it was you! Your right, we've had this conversation before: So why didn't God just put Laban to sleep? Why make a murderer out of Nephi???
And a more to the point: Who's is trying to convince you that God does these sorts of 'human life taking' stories???"
I couldn't begin to know why God would prefer Laban be put to death. It was his plan, not mine. Laban was passed-out drunk when he was killed. Apparently, the Lord thought (knew) Laban would not rest until he had killed them. I think one lesson here is to know that the Lord's work will go on.
Please read your Old Testament about how God dealt with those who stood in the way. It is full of wars and bloodshed. We should learn from these stories.
Who is trying to convince me? No one is trying to convince me. I read my Bible, and I believe the stories in the Bible are a history of a people, just like the Book of Mormon is. They are history, but they are also full of lessons about the Lord and his plan. |
| voice
User ID: 674141
United States
5/8/2009 12:15 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
So why didn't God just put Laban to sleep? Why make a murderer out of Nephi???
How did Nephi then take Laban's bloody clothing and armour off from the drunken man who he had just beheaded, put it on himself and then manage to fool Laban's servant with the whole bloody disguise?
Give me an effin break! Quoting: Ahim-sa
Yea, see, I have a big problem with that one too!! Methinks the real writer's of the Book of Mormon think we are all stupid.......:( |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
United States
5/8/2009 12:17 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
"How did Nephi then take Laban's bloody clothing and armour off from the drunken man who he had just beheaded, put it on himself and then manage to fool Laban's servant with the whole bloody disguise?
Give me an effin break!"
I thought this too. But then I think of the other stories in the Bible about people walking around in fiery furnaces and not getting burned, about people being raised from the dead, about a pillar of fire by night, about getting water from a rock by hitting it with a rod . . . and I begin to understand that all things are possible with God.
Maybe the candle light wasn't very bright. Who knows? Maybe they were playing a good game of cards and only glanced at him in the shadows of the room. |
| voice
User ID: 674141
United States
5/8/2009 12:26 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
I couldn't begin to know why God would prefer Laban be put to death. It was his plan, not mine. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
No, it was not His plan.......You have simply bought into an Illuminate story! sorry....:(
Please read your Old Testament about how God dealt with those who stood in the way. It is full of wars and bloodshed. We should learn from these stories. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
Yes exactly! I have read that book as well......and it is indeed filled with more bloodshed than I care to remember! But once again: You are being had by a group of Latter-Day Pharisee's who will tell you anything in order to keep their LIE afloat! :(
Who is trying to convince me? No one is trying to convince me. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
That's true, they have already convinced you of their debauchery! Open your eye's little one......it's time to awaken! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
United States
5/8/2009 12:28 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
I couldn't begin to know why God would prefer Laban be put to death. It was his plan, not mine.
No, it was not His plan.......You have simply bought into an Illuminate story! sorry....:(
Please read your Old Testament about how God dealt with those who stood in the way. It is full of wars and bloodshed. We should learn from these stories.
Yes exactly! I have read that book as well......and it is indeed filled with more bloodshed than I care to remember! But once again: You are being had by a group of Latter-Day Pharisee's who will tell you anything in order to keep their LIE afloat! :(
Who is trying to convince me? No one is trying to convince me.
That's true, they have already convinced you of their debauchery! Open your eye's little one......it's time to awaken! Quoting: voice 674141
And what makes you think you are correct in your beliefs? I believe what I believe because I have formed my own opinon . . . which just happens to go along with what the Mormon Church believes. I was believing this way years before I ever found the church. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
United States
5/8/2009 12:30 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
To 674141--I do appreciate your friendly tone. It is nice to have a "conversation" and not just get attacked. You seem like a nice person. |
| Ahim-sa
existential akashic experientialist
User ID: 416873
United States
5/8/2009 12:31 AM
| | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
Maybe the candle light wasn't very bright. Who knows? Maybe they were playing a good game of cards and only glanced at him in the shadows of the room. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
Well yeah, who knows, monkeys might fly out of my butt. God loves drama, don't he?
Joseph and Hyrum Smith were arrested and jailed for treason. Joseph had ordered the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor printing press which was publishing the sordid truth of the Smith brother's polygamous affairs.
Joseph had a smuggled pistol in Carthage jail which he used to kill two of the attackers. He then lept or fell from the 2nd story window as he uttered the Masonic distress cry: "Oh Lord my God is there no help for the widow's son?"
Smith knew there were Masons in the mob and whom he called on for help, but failed to recognize their anger with him for publicly absconding with the Masonic secret rituals.
Last Edited by Ahim-sa on 5/8/2009 at 12:32 AM
shift happens |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
United States
5/8/2009 12:32 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
I am off to dreamland. It's past my bedtime! Perhaps we can have another "decent" conversation again in the future. |
| voice
User ID: 674141
United States
5/8/2009 12:40 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
And what makes you think you are correct in your beliefs? I believe what I believe because I have formed my own opinon . . . which just happens to go along with what the Mormon Church believes. I was believing this way years before I ever found the church. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
If you could just realize that "GROWTH" is simply the 'changing of one's perceptions', then you would understand; that as long as you are tied to a certain train of thought.......your growth will be hindered by those very ideals that you hold so tightly too!
God is NEVER about killing, war, or bloodshed! That is a man concept........and we must find a way to overcome it! It's just that simple.......ponder it! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92956
United States
5/8/2009 12:42 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
Maybe the candle light wasn't very bright. Who knows? Maybe they were playing a good game of cards and only glanced at him in the shadows of the room.
Well yeah, who knows, monkeys might fly out of my butt. God loves drama, don't he?
Joseph and Hyrum Smith were arrested and jailed for treason. Joseph had ordered the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor printing press which was publishing the sordid truth of the Smith brother's polygamous affairs.
Joseph had a smuggled pistol in Carthage jail which he used to kill two of the attackers. He then lept or fell from the 2nd story window as he uttered the Masonic distress cry: "Oh Lord my God is there no help for the widow's son?"
Smith knew there were Masons in the mob and whom he called on for help, but failed to recognize their anger with him for publicly absconding with the Masonic secret rituals. Quoting: Ahim-sa
This proves my account that there was a mob who stormed the jail. I'm not sure about him having a pistol, but even if he did it doesn't justify a mob storming the jail and the jailers letting them in knowing what they planned to do. And the "sordid truth" about his polygamous affairs is something that I don't think was ever proved. One of his descendents wrote a book about it because he/she wanted to know for sure whether he practiced polygamy or not. The author said there was no evidence; no wives and no children.
And it sounds to me like you condone the murder of Joseph Smith but not Laban. Double standard?
I have never heard anything about a Masonic cry. How can someone publically abscond with the Masonic secret rituals? They are taught in their temples, aren't they? I'm not sure but have seen documentaries on tv about them. How can one abscond with what they something they learn??? Abscond with knowledge???
Signing off now. Going to bed. |
| voice
User ID: 674141
United States
5/8/2009 12:54 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
How can someone publically abscond with the Masonic secret rituals? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
Well, one month after Joseph joined the masonic order, the Mormon temple ceremony was created.......and guess what? They are exactly "word for word" in certain places! I could get you those quotes......as they are published......but it IS true! :( |
| rb
User ID: 671883
United States
5/8/2009 1:01 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
I'm not so sure you are correct about the U & T not being used to translate the Book of Mormon. It has been a while since I studied Church history. If you read the history as you say you have, you will also know that he never asked his scribe to tell him where he left off in translating on the previous day.
As far as I'm concerned, even if you believe the Book of Mormon to be a work of fiction, it still contains some inspiring and uplifting stories of faith. I have given copies to friends. In times of stress, trouble, etc. reading it can provide comfort.
But then, I like to read all different sources of religious materials. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
the book of Mormon is fascinating and strange and seemingly way beyond the level and comprehension of Joseph Smith
it is also utterly false
I have no problem with moving works of fiction -- I have a problem with works of fiction being called inspired and authoritative and on the same level as the 66 book canon of received text
the whole early history of LDS is littered with innuendo and flat out polygamy -- treachery debauchery
it is impossible to bear good fruit with the root so corrupt
the seagulls saving the salt lake pioneers was miraculous though and shows God's infinite mercy and grace
there is nothing secret or hidden about the true Gospel of Jesus Christ -- His Blood was shed for all our sins. all that 19th century restoration stuff was nonsense
the book or Mormon is nonsense -- unlike the Bible it has no archaeoogical support whatsoever.
where did it come from? some guy using seer stones gazing into a hat as directed by some miraculous angelic being of some sort. and this angel told mr. smith all churches are false except this new one to be contrived??
come on -- tell us to read our Bible for insight on baptism for the dead while completely ignoring warnings about divining praying to angels other gospels etc etc etc???
it defies imagination.
the LDS dogma is deception pure and simple and no amount of backtracking and twisting can even begin to make it look sort of orthodox
if I were Mormon I would cuddle up real close to believing Jesus died for my sins on Calvary and rose from the dead giving me eternal life -- and leave it at that. not a bad idea for any of us in any denomination in my opinion
love peace and joy
rb |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 669492
Australia
5/8/2009 1:05 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
(6) Smith translated by placing the seer stone in a hat and covering his face with his hat to darken his eyes; Quoting: Ahim-sa
So Smith was talking through his hat??? |
| Ahim-sa
existential akashic experientialist
User ID: 416873
United States
5/8/2009 1:06 AM
| | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
And it sounds to me like you condone the murder of Joseph Smith but not Laban. Double standard? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
Dude, get a clue. And don't put words in my mouth. Joseph is a cousin of mine and a fellow human being. I do not condone his murder.
Does it suit your purposes to imply that I do?
I do know my LDS history, inside and out. Just because you never heard of certain facts doesn't negate them.
I really don't enjoy arguing with the "milk" level Mormons such as you appear to be. I was raised on meat......if you know what I mean.
Dream on, brother.
shift happens |
| ExhaleAeonVolts
User ID: 444542
United States
5/8/2009 1:32 AM
 | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
"How can the Mormons null your baptism? What happens? You're sitting there in heaven, some Mormons rebaptise you, then suddenly you get chucked into hell?"
As far as I know, your baptism does not get "nulled" when you are excommunicated.
As far as I know, you are considered a member of the church (after baptism) unless you specifically ask (in person or by letter) to have your name removed from the church rolls. This action on you part will remove you as a member; it is like you were never baptized.
This action is usually a private matter between the Bishop and the person wanting their names removed, so I am not really sure of the process. This is one of those matters that is between the Bishop and the person.
If someone is excommunicated, I think they can still attend church, they just can't hold callings and stuff. However, if someone is excommunicated, it is usually because they are doing something they should not be doing (adultery, for example) and they refuse to quit doing it.
As I said, I am not "exactly" sure how all this works since no one I know has ever been through this process. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 92956
Seems like a person, who would want to remedy the action of Excommunication, would be required to be RE-Baptized. If they were a member who had done their work in the temple, that too would be nullified.
[link to www.lds.org]
Excommunication
A disciplinary process used only in extreme situations. This includes removal of an individual’s name from the records of the Church. Excommunicated individuals have the opportunity to return and have their Church membership restored through the process of repentance and baptism by immersion for the remission of sins.
Church Disciplinary Councils
Bishops and branch presidents and stake, mission, and district presidents have a responsibility to help members overcome transgression through repentance. The most serious transgressions, such as serious violations of civil law, spouse abuse, child abuse, adultery, fornication, rape, and incest, often require formal Church discipline. Formal Church discipline may include restriction of Church membership privileges or loss of Church membership.
Formal Church discipline begins when a presiding priesthood leader determines that it is necessary to hold a disciplinary council. The purposes of disciplinary councils are to save the souls of transgressors, protect the innocent, and safeguard the purity, integrity, and good name of the Church.
Church discipline is an inspired process that takes place over a period of time. Through this process and through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, a member can receive forgiveness of sins, regain peace of mind, and gain strength to avoid transgression. Church discipline is designed to help Heavenly Father's children in their efforts to be purified from sin through the Atonement, return to full fellowship in the Church, and receive the full blessings of the Church.
Here is the link for Baptisms for the Dead:
[link to www.lds.org] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 669492
Australia
5/8/2009 1:38 AM | | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
"How can the Mormons null your baptism? What happens? You're sitting there in heaven, some Mormons rebaptise you, then suddenly you get chucked into hell?"
As far as I know, your baptism does not get "nulled" when you are excommunicated.
Seems like a person, who would want to remedy the action of Excommunication, would be required to be RE-Baptized. If they were a member who had done their work in the temple, that too would be nullified. Quoting: ExhaleAeonVolts
It's not about a Mormon being excommunicated. The question was from a Catholic who was worried that some Mormons would re-baptize him, and that this would null his Catholic baptism.
How can the Mormons null the baptism of a dead Catholic. That's the question.
"How can the Mormons null your baptism? What happens? You're sitting there in heaven, some Mormons rebaptise you, then suddenly you get chucked into hell?" |
| ExhaleAeonVolts
User ID: 444542
United States
5/8/2009 1:51 AM
| | Re: Mormon church caught dead-dunking Obama's mamma. Bizzare proxy-baptism ritual embarrases cult leaders. | Quote |
I see your question and I have no way of knowing what happens on the other side or any knowledge regarding what the LDS perceive on the matter.
Sorry if my post confused or redirected your question.
I was attempting to correct what the other Poster, who I quoted, stated about Ex-Communication from the LDS church not ending his baptism, etc. He was kind of saying he guessed it didn't. But, on the LDS.org site, it says everything is removed and you become like you were never baptized into the LDS church. |
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