People want to discard the old system, the control, the Bible, etc. They want to write it all off as man-made myths and nonsense.
Everyone wants to embrace the liberty and freedom of the new thing which is immenent. Awesome, and I agree, but...
When you throw away religion and decide to ignore everything it says, we have a big problem...
Quoting: Greg_B.
Because the Gods of old are real, and they created us to be their servants, and they ARE coming back before we completely wake up and throw off their shackles.
Quoting: Greg_B.
Okay where's your book that these Gods exist and that they left a manual for humans to obey and follow. Surely these Gods were as smart as humans and had paper-ink invented before we did!
When they do, they are going to be pissed, and you'll have no idea what to do about it because you refused to look into it in the first place.
Quoting: Greg_B.
So they left this earth unattended? Therefore they left someone in charge with a mandate and literature for the rest of us to follow.
Where is this Book???
You won't know who they are, what they want, or what you *could've* been if you had prepared for their arrival.
Quoting: Greg_B.
Until you produce a manual you don't know who they are!!!!
Anonymous Coward User ID: 514538 United States 2/8/2009 2:42 PM
Maybe a simple creature like a bug, or rather a spider, can help us understand some instinctive behavior.
I'm not going to go into too many details on what a spider in general can do, because I'm sure you already know... But let's go into what certain spiders can do.
Trapdoor spiders can build a door -- hinges and all -- and close it to hide their position. Then, when a pray comes close, they open the trap door and grab the pray. Even if one spider started doing this, how did this trait get passed to the other generations of trapdoor spiders?
Bola spiders make an actual bola out of their web (with weights and everything). They are very accurate with their bola; they sit waiting for a fly to go by, then they throw the bola at the bug and it wraps around the fly like a lasso. Then all it has to do is reel in the pray.
It takes quite abit of practice to use a bola, but if a Bola Spider had to take the time to practice, it would end up starving to death. This does not work well when talking about Natural selection. Let's look at the Dinopsis spiders. They make nets out of webs, and throw it at pray!
Then, there's the bell spider, which makes a diving bell out of web to use it to hunt underwater...
Another spider, the Myrmarachne, is about as small as an ant. It learned (as a species) to find ants, to lift up it's back legs to make them look like antena, so the ants think this spider is another ant. The spider then, go in for the kill. With a brain THAT SIZE, how could the spider realize to utilize it's resemblance to an ant so easily?
Fact: DNA replication has a built-in error checking method, and any attempt made by the DNA to change is stopped and reversed.
How did this entire species figure out how to do this if their creator had not implanted in them the knowledge required? Their mothers are not around to teach them how to do this. So tell me... How do such skills -- of the bola, bell, and trapdoor -- evolve?
Quoting: Pleeb
The Guy User ID: 576468 United States 2/8/2009 2:51 PM
Let me ask you a question, OP. How do you explain the fact that if you put animals such as lizards or frogs etc into a cave that has no light then after several generations the frogs and lizards will lose their eyes? The explanation is that in a cave with no light, eyes are not useful to survival and so they don't determine the survival of the fittest and there for those genes will die out.
How bout that? It is perfectly explained by the theory of evolution though.
Personally, I am a believer in "Intelligent Design" to explain all that the theory of evolution doesn't explain. But Darwin's theory covers much.
.
Quoting: Devo 429261
I'll answer, Devo, since OP couldn't. The example you gave is good evidence for why evolution as described by neo-Darwinists doesn't work. Blind cave critters have lost the coding for eyes. The energy expended on growing and maintaining eyes in a lightless environment conferred no survival advantage, and so genetic information was lost. Thus far, all mutations observed have been either loss of genetic information or reshuffling of existing information. No new information was created, which is what would be necessary for evolution above the level of adaptation to occur. Political tags--such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth--are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.
-Robert Heinlein
Greg_B. User ID: 353206 United States 2/8/2009 3:01 PM
There is such a book, you may have heard of it, it is called "The Bible"
It is also called other names in other forms, some are older than the Bible, and closer to the events, and contain extra information that most find valuable in brining certain things to light.
Don't be coy, jackass.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 399450 United States 2/8/2009 3:08 PM
evolution is bullshit,darwins theory,look up the word theory you dumb shits,yes science has its adantages,but it also has its place.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 399450
Are not all Modern writings of that which can not be seen heard or otherwise provable in fact just theory based on history and scientific evidence as recorded none other than man himself.
Tis is inclusive of all writings
Religion the Bible is trying to use scientific evidence as proof positive itself now
So if the shoe fits wear it ?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 596726 Canada 2/8/2009 3:19 PM
There is such a book, you may have heard of it, it is called "The Bible"
It is also called other names in other forms, some are older than the Bible, and closer to the events, and contain extra information that most find valuable in brining certain things to light.
Don't be coy, jackass.
Quoting: Greg_B.
an astoundingly outdated book that is completely irrelevant to what we truly are. It may have served it purpose at the time, there may even be some history colorfully written in there, but nonetheless its a man-made book that many people are wisely turning away from.
a 'god' we are to fear? who gets angry and condemns you to hell if you're not completely subservient? And even if you're not you can just pray the sin away? completely ridiculous.
you won't find god in a book or an idea. Its way more far-reaching than that.
wake up.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 399450 United States 2/8/2009 3:20 PM
evolution is bullshit,darwins theory,look up the word theory you dumb shits,yes science has its adantages,but it also has its place.
Are not all Modern writings of that which can not be seen heard or otherwise provable in fact just theory based on history and scientific evidence as recorded none other than man himself.
Tis is inclusive of all writings
Religion the Bible is trying to use scientific evidence as proof positive itself now
So if the shoe fits wear it ?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 610444
you have got a lot more homework to do,try studing both ends of the spectrum
Anonymous Coward User ID: 399450 United States 2/8/2009 3:31 PM
There is such a book, you may have heard of it, it is called "The Bible"
It is also called other names in other forms, some are older than the Bible, and closer to the events, and contain extra information that most find valuable in brining certain things to light.
Don't be coy, jackass.
an astoundingly outdated book that is completely irrelevant to what we truly are. It may have served it purpose at the time, there may even be some history colorfully written in there, but nonetheless its a man-made book that many people are wisely turning away from.
a 'god' we are to fear? who gets angry and condemns you to hell if you're not completely subservient? And even if you're not you can just pray the sin away? completely ridiculous.
you won't find god in a book or an idea. Its way more far-reaching than that.
wake up.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 596726
no you wake up,heres another one who speaks their ass,do your home work so as to know what the bible really says.man are there really so many ignorant people in this world with such shallow minds
Anonymous Coward User ID: 596726 Canada 2/8/2009 3:34 PM
There is such a book, you may have heard of it, it is called "The Bible"
It is also called other names in other forms, some are older than the Bible, and closer to the events, and contain extra information that most find valuable in brining certain things to light.
Don't be coy, jackass.
an astoundingly outdated book that is completely irrelevant to what we truly are. It may have served it purpose at the time, there may even be some history colorfully written in there, but nonetheless its a man-made book that many people are wisely turning away from.
a 'god' we are to fear? who gets angry and condemns you to hell if you're not completely subservient? And even if you're not you can just pray the sin away? completely ridiculous.
you won't find god in a book or an idea. Its way more far-reaching than that.
wake up.
no you wake up,heres another one who speaks their ass,do your home work so as to know what the bible really says.man are there really so many ignorant people in this world with such shallow minds
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 399450
i have read the bible many times. Your defensive statement of ignorance is ignorance in itself. Step back for a minute and really look at whats going on. You won't the find the answer in any book.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 399450 United States 2/8/2009 3:37 PM
There is such a book, you may have heard of it, it is called "The Bible"
It is also called other names in other forms, some are older than the Bible, and closer to the events, and contain extra information that most find valuable in brining certain things to light.
Don't be coy, jackass.
an astoundingly outdated book that is completely irrelevant to what we truly are. It may have served it purpose at the time, there may even be some history colorfully written in there, but nonetheless its a man-made book that many people are wisely turning away from.
a 'god' we are to fear? who gets angry and condemns you to hell if you're not completely subservient? And even if you're not you can just pray the sin away? completely ridiculous.
you won't find god in a book or an idea. Its way more far-reaching than that.
wake up.
no you wake up,heres another one who speaks their ass,do your home work so as to know what the bible really says.man are there really so many ignorant people in this world with such shallow minds
i have read the bible many times. Your defensive statement of ignorance is ignorance in itself. Step back for a minute and really look at whats going on. You won't the find the answer in any book.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 596726
and yet you still have no understanding.well,sorry you cant fix stupid
Anonymous Coward User ID: 596726 Canada 2/8/2009 3:45 PM
There is such a book, you may have heard of it, it is called "The Bible"
It is also called other names in other forms, some are older than the Bible, and closer to the events, and contain extra information that most find valuable in brining certain things to light.
Don't be coy, jackass.
an astoundingly outdated book that is completely irrelevant to what we truly are. It may have served it purpose at the time, there may even be some history colorfully written in there, but nonetheless its a man-made book that many people are wisely turning away from.
a 'god' we are to fear? who gets angry and condemns you to hell if you're not completely subservient? And even if you're not you can just pray the sin away? completely ridiculous.
you won't find god in a book or an idea. Its way more far-reaching than that.
wake up.
no you wake up,heres another one who speaks their ass,do your home work so as to know what the bible really says.man are there really so many ignorant people in this world with such shallow minds
i have read the bible many times. Your defensive statement of ignorance is ignorance in itself. Step back for a minute and really look at whats going on. You won't the find the answer in any book.
and yet you still have no understanding.well,sorry you cant fix stupid
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 399450
i expected a statement like that from you. Its difficult for some people to let go of the brainwashing control. So they attack, which is a completely understandable reaction. A massive change in consciousness won't be easy for some, but its inevitable.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 610549 Canada 2/8/2009 3:48 PM
Animals were created by God to adapt. Animals don't change into other animals, there are far to many big holes in the lies of evolution for it to be possible. Study the insects and animals for yourselves and you will see the truth. I have also spent alot of time studying the Bible and I believe it is 100% true and believing and accepting Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 362490
perhaps the thought of ''uplift'' comes to mind. the nephilim arrive, take the best creature candidate ,do a little science... presto chango.
The Guy User ID: 576468 United States 2/8/2009 3:50 PM
perhaps the thought of ''uplift'' comes to mind. the nephilim arrive, take the best creature candidate ,do a little science... presto chango.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 610549
We are uplifting some animals. Dogs aren't anywhere near our league intellectually, but I do think some of them are sentient. Political tags--such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth--are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.
-Robert Heinlein
Anonymous Coward User ID: 596721 United States 2/8/2009 3:54 PM
Let me ask you a question, OP. How do you explain the fact that if you put animals such as lizards or frogs etc into a cave that has no light then after several generations the frogs and lizards will lose their eyes? The explanation is that in a cave with no light, eyes are not useful to survival and so they don't determine the survival of the fittest and there for those genes will die out.
How bout that? It is perfectly explained by the theory of evolution though.
Personally, I am a believer in "Intelligent Design" to explain all that the theory of evolution doesn't explain. But Darwin's theory covers much.
.
Devo,
I have no idea. But I'l tell you what. Why don't you stay down in the cave for a couple of generations yourself eating frogs legs and lizards and then let the rest of us know what it's like.
Quoting: 19.47™ 597852
Way to dodge the question, chickenshit.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 610549 Canada 2/8/2009 4:02 PM
the dog whisperers take on it would be that dogs aren't sentient but are well attuned to reading energy and physical cues.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 610549
Maybe. Either way, I think they're nonhuman people. Political tags--such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth--are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.
-Robert Heinlein
Anonymous Coward User ID: 361147 Netherlands 2/8/2009 5:35 PM
I'll answer, Devo, since OP couldn't. The example you gave is good evidence for why evolution as described by neo-Darwinists doesn't work. Blind cave critters have lost the coding for eyes. The energy expended on growing and maintaining eyes in a lightless environment conferred no survival advantage, and so genetic information was lost. Thus far, all mutations observed have been either loss of genetic information or reshuffling of existing information. No new information was created, which is what would be necessary for evolution above the level of adaptation to occur.
Sure it is. That's an example of adaptation. The mutation was a reshuffling of what was already there. Plasmid genes are a lot more malleable than those in chromosomes, and can confer useful changes to the bacterium. Sounds well-designed to me. Political tags--such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth--are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.
-Robert Heinlein
nomuse (NLI) User ID: 610185 United States 2/9/2009 3:06 AM
Thus far, all mutations observed have been either loss of genetic information or reshuffling of existing information.
Quoting: The Guy
nylonase enzyme, produced by a frameshift error. Just one example in the literature of a novel and useful protein arising from a traceable and documentable transcription error.
Producing new information is trivial. It is winnowing through the output of the hundred monkeys that takes time.
nomuse (NLI) User ID: 610185 United States 2/9/2009 3:14 AM
Sure it is. That's an example of adaptation. The mutation was a reshuffling of what was already there. Plasmid genes are a lot more malleable than those in chromosomes, and can confer useful changes to the bacterium. Sounds well-designed to me.
Quoting: The Guy
Wrong. (And I see someone else was reminded of this same recent example!)
The ability to digest nylon had never been in any strain before (at least, not lastingly...as you so well pointed out, in a nylon-less environment it confers no net advantage to the organism.)
But in a larger sense, right, because that's what evolution does; like a man who has lost the combination to a lock, it spins the tumbler randomly, pulling at it with every click in hopes that he'll stumble upon a combination that works.
How is it, however, that you can dodge past this and say "Oh, yes, this is mutation, this is adaption, but this isn't evolution?" What exactly is it that evolution does that is different? Should the bacteria cease eating at all, and start surviving on sunlight, before you stop saying they "adapted" and start saying they "evolved?" Where is your bright line, the difference that seems so clear to you between the micro and the macro?
Could it be, this bright line is based on no clear science, but instead is placed wherever it needs to be to make sure that special creation is necessary to produce a human being?
The Guy User ID: 576468 United States 2/9/2009 5:39 AM
Wrong. (And I see someone else was reminded of this same recent example!)
The ability to digest nylon had never been in any strain before (at least, not lastingly...as you so well pointed out, in a nylon-less environment it confers no net advantage to the organism.)
But in a larger sense, right, because that's what evolution does; like a man who has lost the combination to a lock, it spins the tumbler randomly, pulling at it with every click in hopes that he'll stumble upon a combination that works.
How is it, however, that you can dodge past this and say "Oh, yes, this is mutation, this is adaption, but this isn't evolution?" What exactly is it that evolution does that is different? Should the bacteria cease eating at all, and start surviving on sunlight, before you stop saying they "adapted" and start saying they "evolved?" Where is your bright line, the difference that seems so clear to you between the micro and the macro?
Could it be, this bright line is based on no clear science, but instead is placed wherever it needs to be to make sure that special creation is necessary to produce a human being?
Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 610185
Possibly. The only reason I question I question macroevolution (gradual change from one kind of creature to another) is that it doesn't jive with my religious beliefs. For me, the line is between microevolution and macroevolution. Political tags--such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth--are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.
-Robert Heinlein
Anonymous Coward User ID: 361147 Netherlands 2/9/2009 8:43 AM
Wrong. (And I see someone else was reminded of this same recent example!)
The ability to digest nylon had never been in any strain before (at least, not lastingly...as you so well pointed out, in a nylon-less environment it confers no net advantage to the organism.)
But in a larger sense, right, because that's what evolution does; like a man who has lost the combination to a lock, it spins the tumbler randomly, pulling at it with every click in hopes that he'll stumble upon a combination that works.
How is it, however, that you can dodge past this and say "Oh, yes, this is mutation, this is adaption, but this isn't evolution?" What exactly is it that evolution does that is different? Should the bacteria cease eating at all, and start surviving on sunlight, before you stop saying they "adapted" and start saying they "evolved?" Where is your bright line, the difference that seems so clear to you between the micro and the macro?
Could it be, this bright line is based on no clear science, but instead is placed wherever it needs to be to make sure that special creation is necessary to produce a human being?
Possibly. The only reason I question I question macroevolution (gradual change from one kind of creature to another) is that it doesn't jive with my religious beliefs. For me, the line is between microevolution and macroevolution.
Quoting: The Guy
He asked the fine line between micro and macro evolution, not that you doubt the existence of macro evolution (because that is already clear).
What he means is what is exactly the smallest change you can think of that accounts for "macro evolution" and what is the largest change that you would call "micro evolution".
Also go into the reasoning as to why the line is where you put it.
About the bible...
It's been posted before, but here it is, since it's funny as erm, hell :o)
So do the bible followers in here, really follow everything that is said in the book?
Do you do what your jesus is telling in Luke 14:33?
Give up all you have?
----- Sell all you have : give it to the kittens
And pour the milk on Louis' grave
And Catland, sometimes called Pussydom
Opens for you instantly - it's The Inmost Light !
It's The Inmost Light
Somewhere over the rainbow
On the Goodship Lollipop
The Guy User ID: 576468 United States 2/9/2009 12:13 PM
He asked the fine line between micro and macro evolution, not that you doubt the existence of macro evolution (because that is already clear).
What he means is what is exactly the smallest change you can think of that accounts for "macro evolution" and what is the largest change that you would call "micro evolution".
Also go into the reasoning as to why the line is where you put it.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 361147
It's not a matter of quantity, but of quality. A bacterium that can digest nylon is still a bacterium. That's microevolution. If the bacteria were observed to become eukaryotic, for example, that would be macroevolution. Political tags--such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and. so forth--are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.
-Robert Heinlein
maelstrom User ID: 587381 United States 2/9/2009 12:20 PM
Although every now and then science can come up with something useful, that hardly makes up for the great deal of evil that it has brought into the world. That fact is that in general it's a stinking whore full of lies and traps for those who have turned their backs upon the Lord.
As a thory "evolution" is shot through with more holes than a colander. With a few honorable exceptions most scientists and teachers are sold out to the system. They knowingly tell big porkies and keep silent when those who speak the truth are attacked.
But don't think that you can 'wriggle out of it' on Judgement Day by blaming it on others, if you should die in your own sins. You are responsable for your own actions.
Anyway here's the sad, sad story of one little smart ass who made the choice to close his eyes and go through life knowlingly beleiving a lie. Heed the warning and save your soul while you are still blessed with a little time.
God help us! Its you again. You are so dumb and ignorant. What is Chick tracks your Bible? Do you ever think for yourself? Or does it all go back to Chick and tracks?
Maybe GOD created the evolutionary process? How bout that for and idea. Dont use the brain GOD gave you, dont ever think for yourself, go and read your Chick Tracks.
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